To Begin:

I’ve invited you to this interview because I want to include your voice in my review of Dimension 20 for the peer-reviewed academic journal Queer Studies in Media and Popular Culture. The Dimension 20 anthology has become wildly successful, recently performing live with the “Intrepid Heroes” at Madison Square Garden to a sold-out audience. The show has demonstrated a level of intersectional inclusivity with what I have come to call casual dignity: the practice of granting dignity to difference as though it has never been threatened or even in question. This is particularly evident in the employment of queer creatives and the crafting of queer narratives within the many seasons of the show. Could you talk about your personal investment in that kind of open embrace of differences? (Basically…tell me a little bit about yourself and why these stories are important to you.)

Before I begin, I just want say that this is all very exciting. Folks like you, who take an interest in our show, help to amplify our reach. Thank you so much.

When I was first brought on to this show, when it was just an idea on a piece of paper that Brennan created, my mission was to make a new type of TTRPG show. The initial work was very technical and tactile. Working with Rick to build a table that allowed for the players to feel like they were sitting around a table in a basement while also favoring camera angles. Creating the dome as our inter-dimensional story-telling space. The LED lighting that allowed us to change the mood and be reactive to the unscripted gameplay. The DM screen, which would serve to both shroud the DM’s work, but also be a story element that helps build the world of the mind. Fun fact: the DM screen for Fantasy High was based off of locations of two of my favorite films, Goonies and Roxanne. It’s a combination of Astoria, Oregon and Nelson B.C. Then we had the creation of the battle sets, their size and shape, the entire miniature world that Rick and his team built and of course my compendium to Rick’s work, which was finding a way to film the minis at their level, which required quite bit of experimentation and exploration in tech.  All of this was in an effort to showcase this kind of storytelling in a way that felt unique to the space. We never intended to imitate, but rather add to the TTRPG genre. 

Casting was of course a critical element and we knew we wanted a diverse table from the get-go. More diverse voices means more compelling storytelling. Embracing an inclusive talent pool meant we were going to have a great show! I have always found this to be true. We are in the business of entertainment and all people deserve to be entertained. A good portion of compelling entertainment is showing people and telling stories viewers can relate to. Doesn’t everyone, no matter who you are, no matter how you identify, no matter how you were born, no matter who you’ve become or are becoming, doesn’t EVERYONE deserve to feel seen? Doesn’t everyone deserve to have a moment when they turn on the TV and they can say, “Hey, that’s me! I’m like that!”? That’s a powerful moment. 

For me, it was seeing E.T. in the movie theater. When that film came out my parents were in the middle of a divorce. A broken home is a ground-shaking experience for a child and it’s quite isolating. Here I was, feeling like a complete outsider among my friends with families that all lived in the same house (I felt a lot of shame) and I go to the movie theater to watch a Hollywood Blockbuster and I see a family just like mine! Elliot was me! Everyone deserves that, especially people who feel completely alone, where everyday feels like surviving a war. Those are the people that need to turn on the TV and see people just like them not only surviving but THRIVING. 

After the first season it became clear that the mission of the show had expanded, through its positive reception, to not only be a unique approach to TTRPGs but also a safe space of Diversity, Equity and Inclusion. It was a no-brainer to create a diverse cast, that fit into our ethos of elevating this type of storytelling. I couldn’t foresee that we’d become a safe haven. Dimension 20? Our little comedy show? Our mission was action, adventure, improv, gut-busting laughter, sobbing tears and feel good moments. A safe space too, where viewers can join us for a breath of fresh air and a respite from their daily war? What an absolute honor. 

Collaborative & Transformative Storytelling

How do you approach storytelling when it comes to queer characters and narratives? Many cast/crew members are queer; how much collaboration goes on in the background (before the game starts) with queer writers, actors, or consultants to ensure authenticity?

We employ a multitude of sensitivity consultants before, during and after filming. We offer consultation with any cast member exploring something new or to help them represent something they want to do accurately and authentically. 

For me personally, it’s about creating a safe space where everyone feels included. You can’t be expected to be your true, honest self in an unsafe environment. A safe creative space is our bottom line and we do not accept toxicity. Clearing out a space that feels free from the harm of hatred and exclusion is my number one mission. In regards, to our cast telling their unique story, I couldn’t possibly take any credit. I just make sure they’re protected. They are the true heroes. For our cast to go out there in front of the cameras and give so much of themselves over to the world, to me, that is true heroism. I sit in awe of their work and I simply serve to support. 

Because the Dimension 20 stories are so collaborative, there has to be a lot of trust between planning, production, and performance. The performances each season vary wildly from the silliest heights to the most cathartic depths, and could so easily go off the rails. Can you talk about how that trust is built? 

Freedom to communicate concerns at any time is encouraged and reiterated throughout filming. Anyone for any reason can stop the show, I cut the cameras and we talk things out. Ideally we’ve done the planning beforehand to foresee any issues, but because of the nature of improv we are ready for anything. I don’t have a number for how often this happens, it’s not a lot, but it has happened and it’s important to take a breath in these moments and really talk it out. The conversation continues in post and we have consultants that work with through the editing process. 

When working with queer characters, how do you address intersectionality, particularly when dealing with race, gender, and class, in Dimension 20?

We always ask for help. We never wing it when it comes to this type of subject matter. Along with consultants, the core creative group is constantly discussing where something could go wrong or where we can do a better job. It’s a continuous conversation. We learn too after episode release, we’re not perfect and are constantly evolving as storytellers. We never stop learning.

When setting stories in universes that are already established (Fantasy High inspired by John Hughes films and high fantasy like The Lord of the Rings, Burrow’s End inspired by Watership Down, Misfits and Magic as a simultaneous love letter and bitter callout to the Harry Potter franchise), what is the process of unpacking those worlds? How much collaboration goes into the transformative nature of these projects? 

We’re led by the DM. They come to us with the story they want to tell and we all jump in and educate ourselves. Like any creative process it’s fluid and lots of things get pitched until we find the voice of the season. Once we have that nailed down then it’s a process of adding. Frequent and long meetings of energizing ideation. We want to surprise and delight our cast, which in turn, surprises and delights our audience. Rather than focus on how we think an audience will respond, we focus on the story we want to tell in the dome for the people playing. Everything revolves around our DM and cast. 

Mental Health Support

I’ve never been to LA, but I’ve been informed that the media industry there can be, in a word, toxic. 

This business is so toxic! It’s truly heartbreaking. It seems like everyday there is a new story of abuse from the entertainment industry. As a leader, it kills me that toxicity and abuse is the status quo. The status quo is broken! I, along with the everyone who helps makes this show, proves you can make great content in a healthy, safe environment. It only takes one person to contaminate a set, so it really takes everybody to participate. The leaders set the standard, but the standard can only work if everyone agrees to it.

Safety on set. 

We strive for a safe workplace. Along with on set leadership all aligned with the mission of creating a safe work environment, Dropout as our employer, has the same expectation. That means all the way to the tippy top all forms of safety matter and are a bottom line. If cast or crew do not feel comfortable approaching a leader on the show they are encouraged to reach out the higher ups. As the director I am constantly checking in with all of the crew and my cast. It’s key to have multiple outlets for expressing concern and I am humble to know that I may not be the right person to seek out every time. 

Mental health is often a silent struggle in the industry. How do you advocate for and create a culture of mental health awareness and support on your sets?

This is a mission that is ongoing and constantly evolving. Struggling with mental health is such a private struggle. We have an open door policy and through practicing what we preach we make it very clear, with no judgements, you can come to leadership anytime with any issue and we will support. 

I find it impressive that Dimension 20 has content warnings at the start of each episode. Can you tell me more about that decision? 

This all stems from the show constantly evolving. We can always do better. Once it was clear we were serving as a safe space for viewers and hearing from our viewers about all aspects of sensitivity and safety, the warning was a logical next step in communication and inclusivity. 

Supportive Workplace Practices

In your experience, what are some of the most important practices that Hollywood could (and should!) adopt to create more inclusive and supportive workplaces for queer creatives?

Multiple outlets for support. Encourage open and honest conversation. Leadership should accept the fact that they do not know everything. It’s okay to be humbled. It’s okay to learn new things. It’s okay to be wrong, apologize and evolve.

Do you have specific policies or practices in place on your sets to prevent discrimination, harassment, or microaggressions directed at queer staff or cast members?

All cast and crew benefit from the same policies. Nobody should ever be the victim of these things. Dropout has strict policies when it comes to these issues.

How do you ensure queer actors and crew members feel safe and respected in their work environment, particularly in an industry where queerness has historically been marginalized or exploited?

One thing that really struck me at Madison Square Garden is that we’ve really created a home. Home means safe, home means you belong, home means you have a voice. When you walk onto my set I want you to feel and understand that you are home. When we are shooting the show at our studio, I stand outside and greet every person as they arrive. With full intention I tell every person that I am glad they are here. You never know who needs to hear that so I just say it to everyone. Maybe, without them even knowing it, everyone needs to hear it.

How do you navigate situations where a venue, studio, or production company may resist inclusive practices? What’s your strategy to advocate for queer representation?

This is my set, I’m the director, this is how I do things. Being a leader is a big responsibility. You need to put yourself on the line for your people. Plain and simple. 

Supporting Queer Creators and the Queer Community

Do you think the media industry has made genuine progress in supporting the queer community, or would you say there still a lot of work to be done? What changes do you hope to see in the next 5 to 10 years?

More diversity, more equity and more inclusion! More!

Additional Questions

What are your thoughts on Dimension 20 being included in the realm of academia as worthy of scholarship and deeper analysis?

Just like everything that has come from this show, I am astounded by its impact and reach. It only makes me want to find more avenues of amplification so we can find more people that need to be found. Whether it’s Time Magazine, Rolling Stone or Queer Studies in Media and Popular Culture, it’s all amplification and it all works to find more family to bring home.

Dimension 20, as an anthology, seems to avoid any instances of tokenism – a common complaint regarding mainstream queer representation. How do you and the cast/crew so successfully ensure that queer characters and narratives are fully integrated into the story rather than being there just for the sake of diversity?

We ask for help. We are always on the lookout for pitfalls and we bring people in who know better than us to help us be as authentic as possible. Ultimately, our continued mission is to create new worlds where everyone is invited.

What is your personal responsibility as a director in shaping the perception of queer identity through your work?

Diverse voices mean better stories. I’m on an endless mission to create safe spaces for diverse voices to shine. Everyone deserves to be seen and heard. 

What is one piece of advice you would give to young queer creators aspiring to work in film and television?

Never give up and be the leader you always wished you had. Stop at nothing to create safe spaces. Your voice and your story is special and people you have never met need to hear your voice. They need the hope.